Renovating a 100 year old basement
December 7th, 2005
The copper piping was a lot more difficult than the PVC drain/vent pipes. It
required soldering with torch and obviously the pipes had to be precut exactly
where they were going before the soldering could be done. I tapped into existing
hot/cold water pipes right there in the bathroom ceiling. You can see the hot/cold
water pipes completed for the toilet, kitchen sink, bathroom sink, and two unfinished
pipes for the shower and washing machine.
Also worth mentioning is the wall in front of the up flush toilet. That was
by far the most challenging wall I had to build in the basement. There was barely
any room and all the existing pipes in the ceiling made it difficult to mount
into the 1st floor rafters. You can also see the closet, which has been framed
out.
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40 Comments, Comment or Ping
kk
I am amazed by you. Next project: “build a HOUSE”. I guess hard-work and determination pays off after all :o) Congrats on building your very own crib.
Mar 2nd, 2006
PJ
Hey there,
Probably the most descriptive site I’ve found on the topic, with plenty of pics of the process start to finish. Very nice job on the blog and the work in the basement. Don’t see any contact info, but would like to discuss the project with you when you’re available.
For example, I’m interested in what else the Engineer spec’d for you as far as concrete, footing depth, size and how your soil conditions played into that. What did your town’s building dept think of the project? Had you looked into having the concrete delivered?
I would love to be able to do this in the next year or two. did you have any experience with concrete work before? Seems like a very good job by the looks of it, your site has been a good primer for me, and at least gives me the confidence I might be able to tackle this myself some time.
PJ
Mar 7th, 2006
Raam
Hello PJ,
Thank you for your kind comments. When I first started the basement project, I too searched the web for others who may have written about similar projects; however I found very little information. This was one of the reasons I documented the process as much as I could.
The structural engineer told me that he was surprised how little information there was on the topic of digging below a foundation. However he did manage to come up with three separate papers with different ideas on how to go about it. I will scan the pages and add them to this project (give me a few days). As for the concrete, he recommended using the higher strength concrete (40,000 lb if I remember correctly) for the basement floor. He also recommended 2×2′ concrete footings at least 2′ or 3′ deep. I did not look into having the concrete delivered because I wasn’t sure how much I would need. I also enjoyed the workout!
The concrete work you saw was the only experience I’ve had with concrete. I do recommend picking up a few concrete books before you start any work just to get a few ideas of how it’s done. I wished I had done that before I started, as things would have gone more smoothly. Also, make sure you wear a mask!! Working with concrete like that (especially high strength concrete) in a closed space (the basement) is very unhealthy for your lungs.
Keep checking back for updates. The major parts of the basement are finished, but building the rest of the walls, finishing the ceiling, and finishing the floor have yet to be completed. I will send you an email with my email address so you have my contact info.
Mar 7th, 2006
PJ
Raam,
Will definitely be checking back with you for updates to the site, love looking at ‘in progress’ pics of remodeling - and comparing to my own ‘adventures’. Looking forward to the papers you’re going to scan - thanks for the effort!
PJ
Mar 7th, 2006
SL
WOW RAAMY!!! Ur so talented!!! I wish I have your intelligent or at least 1/3 of ur mind…lol
Your crazy and smart, I admire your determination…soon you be living in your new crib….
Mar 9th, 2006
PJ
Hey Raam,
Congrats on the job, have you gotten a chance to find those papers the structural engineer had given you? No hurry, just curious.
Thanks,
PJ
Mar 21st, 2006
YO MAMA
OK I WANT TO SEE THE KITCHEN !!!!!
AND MAKE SURE YOUR GETTING GOOD HEALTHY FOOD !!!!
Mar 26th, 2006
Raam
Hey PJ,
Sorry it took so long to get the structural engineer papers up. You can find them here.
Mar 31st, 2006
Michael Nuzzo
Raam, I am planning on doing something very similar in my basement. I want to go 2′ below the existing footing. Any ideas or advise to make it a little easier. I am very worried about compromising the existing foundation.
Apr 9th, 2006
Raam
Michael:
If you haven’t already, please take a look at the possible options provided to me by a structual engineer. I highly reccomend you hire a structual engineer to take a look at your basement and give you advice. There are a lot of things that could go wrong while doing something like this. I feel as if I’m just lucky that nothing went wrong for me.
Another tip: If you currently have a dirt floor, lay down at least 2 inches (more would be better) of gravel before you pour the concrete floor. If you pour the concrete right onto the dirt floor, the dirt will suck all the water out of the concrete and won’t give you time to properly cure (level) the concrete before it dries.
I hope this helps. I’d be interested to see pictures or hear how it goes.
Apr 9th, 2006
Mike
if you were to pay contractors to do?
I am having someone dig out my basement right now, finish it and put in a new bathorro with shower. The area is about 30 x 25. He’s charging $16k. Btw, do any of you know if there is anywhere in the NYC area that seels “minveyors” that we can set up to take the dirt directly to the dumpster?
Jan 27th, 2007
Raam
Hey Mike,
I don’t know of anyone that sells “miniveyors”. I removed all the dirt myself, using 5-gallon buckets two at a time! I had thought of the conveyor option, but realized that it would be an additional cost for a project that was already taking longer, and costing more, than I had anticipated.
$16k to dig out the basement, finish it, and add a bathroom w/ shower is not a bad deal. I had a guy who wanted to charge me $8k just to dig the basement and pour the concrete!
If you’re going to add an upflush toilet, make sure you box out the area the upflush toilet is going to be installed before pouring the concrete so you don’t have to cut the concrete floor after pouring it.
Good luck and send some pictures of the progress if you can!
Jan 31st, 2007
Sean
great web site! I’ve found that it is very difficult to get info about this on the internet. Thanks!
question: Do you know the title and author of the book from which the structural engineer got the pages you scanned?
Apr 12th, 2007
Raam
Thanks Sean,
I did some Google searching, and I think the book he got it from was probably “Principles of Home Inspection: Structure“, though I could be wrong.
I hope this helps!
Apr 13th, 2007
Mikey D
NICE BLOG, I’M IN THE PROCESS OF BUYING FIRST HOUSE, ALTHOUGH THE CEILINGS ARE ALREADY 8 FEET, STILL HAVE TO DIG BEFORE POURING THE CRETE TO KEEP THE 8. THIS WAS REALLY HELPFUL, AND REMINDS ME THAT A “GO TO” ATTITUDE CAN SAVE YOU SOME HARD EARNED MONEY IF YOUR WILLING TO SWEAT. YOU ARE AN INSPIRATION TO THE REST OF US, AND PEOPLE LIEK YOU KEEP US GOING, THANKS
Apr 28th, 2007
Raam
Thank you Mikey!
It’s always nice to hear when people find my basement post useful. I wish you luck in completing your basement project!
Apr 30th, 2007
Travis S.
Sat down this morning to Google digging out basements and found your web log. Impressive! Read from page one to the end in one sitting. We’re starting our own basement dig soon. Three separate rooms to be done starting first with the farthest from the basement door. Thanks for the info. I will visit your blog again for further updates. Great job!
Sep 17th, 2007
Raam
Thank you Travis! I’m glad to hear you found my post useful.
If you have any particular questions, don’t hesitate to contact me (details available on my Contact page) or post your question here in the comments. I’ll do whatever I can to help!
Good luck with your project!
Sep 17th, 2007
Dana Marie Lavigne
Like most of your other web viewers, I also started to work on my basement. Some of my obstacles are securing my chimney, replacing temporary house jack to lally columns and putting in needed drainage because of high water table.
I had the same idea for perimeter footings by doing it a section at a time. From what I read, you did 5′ sections, 8″ wide approx 3′ deep. How many bags of cement did you use per 5′ section? I noticed you didn’t use any vapor barrier under concrete.
I have one steel I beam coming in to replace a floating 8″x8″ beam on 3 temporary house jacks. This will open this space tremendously.
I am also working on eliminating two brick piers and replace them with one lally column by adding heavy gauge steel angle iron to both sides of a wood beam that is sitting on the foundation.
I am concerned about narrowing my basement entrance by adding the 8″ footing then framing an exterior wall on it. I figure that I’ll end up with a 20″ wide stairway on the last 4 steps into the basement. Any ideas?
Great job on your basement. I showed my husband your site and he told me that he would be busy those days I plan to start digging. Ha! As long a he cooks the meals, I’m going to attack it like a workout.
Dec 28th, 2007
Raam
Hello Dana,
Congratulations on starting your basement project. The initial attack is always the most difficult!
To answer your question about how many bags of concrete I used per section, let me first clarify how big each section really was. I tried to keep the thickness of each form to about 5 - 6″, but in some places I may have gone much less (usually places where digging so far underneath the foundation was really starting to scare me!). How much less? Well in some places I may have only gone 3″ - 4″. Never the less, the average size was about 6′ wide by 3′ tall and 5″ deep. I used about 3 - 4 bags of concrete per form.
Let me tell you though, having a mixing machine made all the difference! I purchased the cheapest one I could find for about $150. It was electric and mixed 2 - 3 bags at once. That coupled with a hose made the mixing much easier.
Since this was my first time doing anything with concrete, vapor barriers weren’t even something I had thought of — I never had problems with water in the basement prior to starting the project (nor after), but in retrospect I would have used a vapor barrier anyway.
As for the entrance way, I too had the same dilemma. I concluded that the extra space was worth more than framing it off with walls and I thought if the town ever came by and saw a very small exit-way, they might complain. So I decided not to finish off the area where the actual foundation was. That means you wouldn’t be able to insulate it, but you could still tile it or put wallboard over the unfinished area to make it look nice.
For the stairs, I tore out the old bulkhead and existing stairs. The existing stairs left very little clearance when entering the basement and I wanted it to feel more open. The pictures on this page show how short the old stairs were and the next page shows how far back I dug into the ground to make room for the new stairs. I then rebuilt the entrance which allowed for a full 32″ door. It really wasn’t that difficult and this could have been done even if I left the existing stairs in place (though I would still have had the problem with low clearance when entering the basement).
I would love to see some pictures of work-in-progress and if you have any other questions, please don’t hesitate to ask! If you can accompany your questions with pictures, it would make answering them that much easier!
Good luck on your project!
Dec 30th, 2007
Autumn23242
Great job! This looks fantastic!
I just bought a house built back in 1890 and my basement is almost identical to yours before the work. I noticed when you put the framing for the walls up you put pink R13 insulation. Did you put anything between the stone walls and the insulation?
Also, what did you use to fill cracks in the between the stones? I assume there would have been some just from the age of the home. Any advice you can share on how you did the framing and insulation would be great!
Thanks!
Jan 11th, 2008
Raam
Hello and Thank You Autumn!
I have updated page 20 of this post with lots of information answering your questions. Please let me know if you need further clarification or if you have any more questions!
Good luck on your project!
Jan 12th, 2008
Jay
WOW very impressive. Thank you for posting this because as you’ve mentioned there isn’t too much on this topic elsewhere. You’ve answered alot of my questions and the basement looks great. I had previously helped my father lower a portion of our basement years ago using the old 5 gallon bucket technique. I’m about to begin to finish the rest of it off. Thanks again for sharing your story!
Mar 13th, 2008
Raam
Thanks for the comment Jay!
It’s always nice to hear when someone finds this post useful.
Mar 14th, 2008
Rich
After reading your blog, I’ve decided to go at it myself! Thanks for putting in the time to write about it. It was very helpful + it gave me the confidence to proceed.
To those other people who are considering it - it’s some serious hard work, but very rewarding.
http://richardcorbett.blogspot.com
Apr 21st, 2008
Raam
I’m glad to hear I inspired you, Rich!
I wished I took pictures as nice as the ones on your blog, but I didn’t even know I would eventually be writing an entire blog post about the project until after I was done. I just knew I wanted a record of the progress so I could look back and see where it all began! The rest of the post was written mostly from memory!
I’m surprised there aren’t more blogs out there with people detailing their home project adventures like ourselves. I’ll definitely be watching your blog for updates!
Thanks Rich!
Apr 22nd, 2008
Jeff
I was curious as to hwo this was done. My wife and I are just about to buy a house wiht the same issue exactly. The stone wall will need to be replace don one side though. How didyou determine if the drainage was lower the the new foundation? or mroe specifically can I determine that prior to digging? How much did the hosue settle and did the drywall inside the house crack because of it? I will have mroe questions later.
May 8th, 2008
Raam
Hello Jeff,
The long 3″ drain pipe that extended from the area below the bathroom/kitchen to the main city drainage exited the basement through the existing floor. This meant if I dug the floor down 2′ any additional drainage would need to be pumped up to allow it to exit via the main drain. You can see the main cast iron drain extending away from the bathroom towards the street to exit the house in these pictures. It’s also visible in this picture on the right side.
If you don’t plan to put a kitchen/bathroom in your basement, and you don’t have any water issues, you might not need to involve a pump at all.
The house didn’t settle at all after I did the basement work — it settled many years ago shortly after the house was built. I wanted to make sure my work in the basement didn’t cause it to settle any more, which is why I did extra work to secure that section of the foundation.
I hope all goes well with your new home. This is a great time to purchase a house as the overall market has really created a lot of great buying opportunities!
May 8th, 2008
Jeff
i knew i wanted to ask another question. thanks for your fast response. What was the estimated total cost of the supplies for the project sans the toilet and shower and kitchen. So, the walls and concrete and bits?
May 8th, 2008
Raam
The project extended over a long period of time, so I can’t even make a guess as to how much I spent overall. The bathroom alone probably totaled around $5 or $6k (that would include the wood, drywall, and plumbing). Keep in mind that I did all this work myself, so that doesn’t include labor costs.
I have all my costs saved in my Quicken application, but I haven’t checked for a total. I’ll see if I can find out tonight and post it on the front page of this post.
May 8th, 2008
Jeff
did you need to get building permits and such?
May 12th, 2008
Raam
Most likely your town requires a permit for such work. If you do the work without pulling a permit, a future inspection may uncover the work and the building department might make you remove all the work (or they can issue a criminal violation).
If you live in a small town and you’re not planning on selling your house anytime soon, you might consider taking the risk of doing the work without pulling permits. However, at the very minimum I would recommend you hire a structural engineer who can inspect the property to make sure there is no risk of structural damage to the property. If you explain to him what you’re trying to do, he will make recommendations. It was definitely the best $300 a spent during this project.
Good luck!
May 12th, 2008
Chuck
Awesome job!!! I have been wanting to do this to my 2 family for a long time. Finding your site gives me the confidence to get going. I may bother you with a few questions in the future if that’s ok. Thanks.
May 18th, 2008
Raam
Hey Chuck! Glad to hear I’ve inspired you.
I’m happy to answer any questions you have, so feel free to post them whenever you’re ready.
May 18th, 2008
jan tanjo
Hi Raam.
Thank you for posting when I started looking for this type of information three years ago there was nothing. You are an example of how the internet grows, of how information should not be used as a “weapons”.
A lot of REALLY good information. I’ve also documented my project and maybe we could link to each other as a way of helping others.(?)
jan
Jul 2nd, 2008
Raam
Hi Jan,
I too looked for this info online before starting the project and I was amazed how little I found. That was one of the biggest reasons I decided to write this long 25-page post.
I would be more than happy to link to your project if you’ll do the same for mine. Use the Contact page to send me an email with the link.
Thanks!
Jul 2nd, 2008
Jose
Hi Ramm,
Amazing project, and very useful information. I was wondering if you have pictures of the final stages of the renovation. It’d great to see how it looks now. We’re planning to buy a house with a 6′ basement. Your blog has given us a clear picture of what is waiting ahead of us. Great job.
Jose
Jul 4th, 2008
Raam
Hey Jose,
I’ve actually been forced to stall the project beyond what the pictures show. I got hit really badly by the mortgage crisis (adjustable rate mortgage, market went down, I owe more on the property than it is currently valued, so I’m not able to refinance and get out of the adjustable rate mortgage, so my payment went up $800 a month).
I’m currently trying to sell the house, but it looks like it may be foreclosed on before that happens.
Good luck with your new house! If you have any questions at all, please don’t hesitate to ask.
Jul 4th, 2008
blair
Hi, congrats on your accomplishment - it looks great!!! We are going to attempt this on our newly purchased home. How long did it take you to complete this project? Did you have a lot of help?
I would love to pics of the bedroom, and more of the other rooms.
Dec 23rd, 2008
Raam
Hi Blair,
It took me close to a year to get to where you saw the last pictures of the kitchen. I didn’t have any help — I was doing it all myself after work and on weekends.
Unfortunately, I had to sell the house and I wasn’t able to really finish the project. Good luck on your project!
Dec 23rd, 2008
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